Curse

Calista Blackblood · Jan 05, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

[spinal shivers] is just for interrupts on caster bosses when needed. My necro and her heroes have cold damage wands. [Mark of Pain] is just to support discord on my heroes plus some aoe damage through minions/ebon vanguard assassins. But these spells are very seldom needed if they are used at all.

A level 12 AP also gives 17 energy return when the target dies, plus a 13 soul reaping returns 13 energy giving a total of 30 energy when the target dies provided it is within the 3 times over 15s limit. That just about covers the 35 energy needed to run through the 4 skills once, considering regen. This means I only need to use the first 4 skills most of the time every quickly without worrying about energy at all.

I dont need to bring barbs when my curse necro hero already has it. I dont see why I need 12 to curse when I dont even have the chance to cast any curse skill on my necro 99% of the time, other than maybe rend enchantments which already removes 7 enchantments per cast at my level. Most things die after just using the first 4 skills anyway.

Again you are completely missing the point of the build.The entire build concept was never designed to support discordway,it was designed to support physicals hence [mark of pain] + [rigor mortis] in the original build.In all honesty I think the only reason you run 12 deadly arts and gimp the strongest necro skill line with 3 points is to keep up with [discord] and cast AP before stuff dies.It was never about energy gain either,which you seem to think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

I decided to go with MegaVolti's plan. Eventually I'll reach them both.

But, I have a question to Blackblood and Daesu.
Why do bring [[you move like a [email protected]] and [[finish [email protected]]. I right now have [[pain [email protected]], [[Air of Superiority] and [[Ebon Vanguard Assassin [email protected]]. Should I switch?

Spammable knockdown,cripple,cracked armor and deep wound.A well timed [finish him] can easily kill a target and trigger AP
[pain inverter] is nice against bosses so don't rule that out for areas that it may be needed in.
[ebon vanguard assassin support]Works awesomly with [mark of pain]
[you move like a dwarf]and [finish him] are perfect additions to the build for ^conditions,KD and instakill
[air of superiority]May be useful but you will never be guaranteed any decent benefit like the 10% chance of skill recharge

Really up to you.

mmgambit · Jan 05, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

My only addition would be to take out assasin support and put in necrosis because it is a powerful, fast, cheap spike that will work like discord if you do use this build in that way. If you have other human partners that are necros they should run a discord/necrosis combo for larger damage. bud i definately see the effectivness of the skills calista has

Calista Blackblood · Jan 05, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmgambit

My only addition would be to take out assasin support and put in necrosis because it is a powerful, fast, cheap spike that will work like discord if you do use this build in that way. If you have other human partners that are necros they should run a discord/necrosis combo for larger damage. bud i definately see the effectivness of the skills calista has

In proper [discord] setups yes as it the conditions are easily met.With AP I really wouldn't drop Ebon Sin,Two or 3(maybe more) of them on your [mark of pain] /[barbs] target really mess up the mob/foe

mmgambit · Jan 05, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

alright im gonna try this out. Thanks

Daesu · Jan 06, 2009, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

Again you are completely missing the point of the build.The entire build concept was never designed to support discordway, it was designed to support physicals

Your build maybe but not mine. Heroes melee AI sucks when encountering AoE attacks from monsters.

My build synergizes with discordway and that was the point of the build from the very start so I dont need to LFG in town and it has been working very well for me vanquishing all of EOTN.

By the way, [spinal shivers] doesn't work with physical damage, only cold damage. There is some amount of physical damage from the team in the form of minions and ebon assassins to support a low level [[mark of pain] but that is secondary and I dont think I ever get to use it.

The main damage is Discord from the heroes, and my pve skills.

Quote:

In all honesty I think the only reason you run 12 deadly arts and gimp the strongest necro skill line with 3 points is to keep up with [discord] and cast AP before stuff dies.It was never about energy gain either,which you seem to think.

No it was for the energy. The necro heroes bring their own hexes.

I dont need a fast recharge skill like necrosis because I have AP. And it is good to have a cast and forget skill like EVAS and with AP, I can have multiple assassins running around at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

But, I have a question to Blackblood and Daesu.
Why do bring [[you move like a [email protected]] and [[finish [email protected]]. I right now have [[pain [email protected]], [[Air of Superiority] and [[Ebon Vanguard Assassin [email protected]]. Should I switch?

Like I have said, my strategy is to synergize with a discordway triple necro heroes team. Therefore [[you move like a dwarf] and [[finish him] give cripple, deep wound, and cracked armor. All nice conditions to support discord. AP can also be used to support discord as a hex, but I usually cast it just before the target dies. My necro heroes bring their own hexes also.

bungusmaximus · Jan 06, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

I'd tome FOC, skills tend to change and I'm one of these pr!cks that capped it the hard way, curse that Maw the Mountainfart.

Calista Blackblood · Jan 06, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

By the way, [spinal shivers] doesn't work with physical damage, only cold damage.

WTB:Icy Sword Hilt,Dagger Tang,Spearhead,Scythe Snathe.You're very wrong

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No it was for the energy.

On a necro?

Click Me

Daesu · Jan 06, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

WTB:Icy Sword Hilt,Dagger Tang,Spearhead,Scythe Snathe.

Why would I need that, when cold damage necro wands already exist?

Are you saying that melee heroes are better than necro heroes?

And at the speed that I am killing with AP, even soul reaping alone is not enough to keep up with my energy needs, which is where a maxed AP comes in useful.

A build centered around [[Mark of Pain] work better with fiends and/or human physical players. If I am going with H/H, necro heroes work better. I use a MM bomber with [[Animate bone minions] which helps to spread poison to better facilitate discord.

Calista Blackblood · Jan 06, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Your ridiculous statement

By the way,[spinal shivers]doesn't work with physical damage, only cold damage.

Tell that to Deep steel wall teams and get laughed out of the district,because they have sooo been doing it wrong this whole time.Physicals doing cold damage? IMPOSSIBLE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

WTB:Icy Sword Hilt,Dagger Tang,Spearhead,Scythe Snathe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Why would I need that, when cold damage necro wands already exist?

According to your own ridiculous statements physicals can't do cold damage,and the fact that axe's dagger's sword's and spears all have faster attack rates than wands makes you look even worse.

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Are you saying that melee heroes are better than necro heroes?

Not that I recall no

Quote:

And at the speed that I am killing with AP, even soul reaping alone is not enough to keep up with my energy needs, which is where a maxed AP comes in useful.

You pretty much said you only need 4 skills on the bar. [assassins promise][you move like a dwarf][finish him][ebon vanguard assassin support] and you still need energy other than from soul reaping? How bad are you?

Seriously stop trolling badly with bad builds and ridiculously stupid statements

Thread should be locked imo

Xenomortis · Jan 06, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

You pretty much said you only need 4 skills on the bar. [assassins promise][you move like a dwarf][finish him][ebon vanguard assassin support] and you still need energy other than from soul reaping? How bad are you?

To be fair though, that combo will take up more energy than what you gain from 12/13 in Soul Reaping + energy gain from time using the skills.
Although needing to max Deadly Arts is stupid, because the energy gain from AP only increases at 1 point a rank, the same as SR, except SR is going to be triggered more often.
Maxing both SR and DA is unnecessary, I personally run 10 in DA, 11+3 in Curses and 11+1 in SR.
Yes the Sup Rune is stupid, yes even my DA is too high. I run that less for the energy gain and more the hex duration. Every now and then, an enemy would refuse to die in under 12 seconds and I have to suffer the long recharge of AP and my other skills - it annoyed me. MoP still carves up enemy mobs though, so I don't feel too gimped. I tend to run Discord spam heroes though.

Calista Blackblood · Jan 06, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

To be fair though, that combo will take up more energy than what you gain from 12/13 in Soul Reaping + energy gain from time using the skills.
Although needing to max Deadly Arts is stupid, because the energy gain from AP only increases at 1 point a rank, the same as SR, except SR is going to be triggered more often.
Maxing both SR and DA is unnecessary, I personally run 10 in DA, 11+3 in Curses and 11+1 in SR.
Yes the Sup Rune is stupid, yes even my DA is too high. I run that less for the energy gain and more the hex duration. Every now and then, an enemy would refuse to die in under 12 seconds and I have to suffer the long recharge of AP and my other skills - it annoyed me. MoP still carves up enemy mobs though, so I don't feel too gimped. I tend to run Discord spam heroes though.

Taking into account other deaths in the area fueled by [mark of pain] and physicals/minions it should never be a problem.AoE [barbs] like Daesu promotes because of low curses is never really going to help you win any battle.

Scarily we're thinking the exact same way again.Deadly arts never needs to be maxed.It clearly gimps the most potent attribute used in the bar regardless of team formation.IIRC the discord team has minions on each bar that are perfectly capable of triggering a 12curse+ MoP(No harm in carrying a spear swap either).And frankly there is no good reason to not run the build as such

Daesu · Jan 07, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

Taking into account other deaths in the area fueled by [mark of pain] and physicals/minions it should never be a problem.AoE [barbs] like Daesu promotes because of low curses is never really going to help you win any battle.

You must be utterly confused between your build and mine, I dont have barbs in my build.

Yours:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

[assassins promise][barbs][rigor mortis][mark of pain][rend enchantments][you move like a dwarf][finish him]

is not mine.

Quote:

Scarily we're thinking the exact same way again.Deadly arts never needs to be maxed.It clearly gimps the most potent attribute used in the bar regardless of team formation.IIRC the discord team has minions on each bar that are perfectly capable of triggering a 12curse+ MoP(No harm in carrying a spear swap either).And frankly there is no good reason to not run the build as such

You are wrong. The most potent overpowered skills are the PvE skills! There is really no need for my necro to bring any curse spell because my discord necro hero already have them. Other than the 4 skills, the rest almost never get used at all.

Can you please stop trolling and emphasizing how good your own build is compared to others? What a way to self-advertise!

Lyynyyrd · Jan 07, 2009, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You must be utterly confused between your build and mine, I dont have barbs in my build.

He was suggesting that because your curses was so low, Mark of Pain would essentially be an AoE Barbs (damage wise).

Just read some more of this post, and, holy crap, you're bad.

Daesu · Jan 07, 2009, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyynyyrd

He was suggesting that because your curses was so low, Mark of Pain would essentially be an AoE Barbs (damage wise).

And I have already said before:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

There is some amount of physical damage from the team in the form of minions and ebon assassins to support a low level Mark of Pain but that is secondary and I dont think I ever get to use it.

The main damage is Discord from the heroes, and my pve skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

There is really no need for my necro to bring any curse spell because my discord necro hero already have them. Other than the 4 skills, the rest of the skills almost never get used at all.

Furthermore,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

Scarily we're thinking the exact same way again.Deadly arts never needs to be maxed.

Soul reaping alone from minions doesn't replenish the full energy cost of the 4 skills. 13 to Soul reaping only gives 13e for a max of 3 times every 15s, and the build can kill faster than that with discordway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

WTB:Icy Sword Hilt,Dagger Tang,Spearhead,Scythe Snathe.

And asking for my necro heroes to use Icy sword hilt and Icy dagger tang to melee is just STUPID. (your post #27)

Especially when I have already told you I use a triple necro discordway team. (since the bottom of post #16)

NEWS FLASH: Necros do not need Icy Sword Hilt or Icy Dagger Tang to dish out cold damage and cold damage necro wands are already in abundance.

From all your posts that I have read on this thread and on others, I am surprised as an "elite guru", you really dont know much about necros. I deliberately corrected you in a civil manner, but apparently you are too stuffed up with pride to return the favor.

Calista Blackblood · Jan 07, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And I have already said before:
Furthermore,
Soul reaping alone from minions doesn't replenish the full energy cost of the 4 skills. 13 to Soul reaping only gives 13e for a max of 3 times every 15s, and the build can kill faster than that with discordway.

The 4 skills YOU said you only ever got to use cost 35e.How can 39 not replenish that+insane energy from AP.

Quote:

And asking for my necro heroes to use Icy sword hilt and Icy dagger tang to melee is just STUPID. (your post #27)

Actually I didn't.That was nothing more than a reply to your astounding statement saying that physicals can't do cold damage,which they can of course.Maybe read and not make such ridiculous statements?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

By the way,[spinal shivers]doesn't work with physical damage, only cold damage.

Quote:

Especially when I have already told you I use a triple necro discordway team. (since the bottom of post #16)

Again read.

Quote:

NEWS FLASH: Necros do not need Icy Sword Hilt or Icy Dagger Tang to dish out cold damage and cold damage necro wands are already in abundance.

Thanks..No seriously..I didn't know that

Quote:

From all your posts that I have read on this thread and on others, I am surprised as an "elite guru", you really dont know much about necros. I deliberately corrected you in a civil manner, but apparently you are too stuffed up with pride to return the favor.

Being an elite guru doesn't mean I have to carebear you or anyone else.You quite clearly don't know much if anything about necros.If you do.it hasn't been shown in this thread once.I find you throwing around suggestions that I know nothing quite hilarious after the quoted statements.Pride is quite laughable too,This is the internet and considering you don't know me of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Can you please stop trolling and emphasizing how good your own build is compared to others? What a way to self-advertise!

I didn't post a build either

What are you going to make up next?

Daesu · Jan 07, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

The 4 skills YOU said you only ever got to use cost 35e.How can 39 not replenish that+insane energy from AP.

What? 39e, as in the 13e X 3 times over a period of 15s, through soul reaping, and you are comparing that against the 35e cost of casting the 4 skills once through?

Sure, if you are saying casting AP+YMLAD+EVAS+FH ONCE would drop 3 enemies for you within 15s. Try to think before you answer next time.

Quote:

Actually I didn't.That was nothing more than a reply to your astounding statement saying that physicals can't do cold damage,which they can of course.Maybe read and not make such ridiculous statements?

I never said physical damage classes can never dish out cold damage. That is something you cooked up from your own mind by confusing yourself.

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I didn't post a build either

Really? So post #14 on this thread must have been made by someone else using your account then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

[assassins promise][barbs][rigor mortis][mark of pain][rend enchantments][you move like a dwarf][finish him]

Pretty much curses+PvE skills if available

Close enough as a build suggestion in my opinion.

daze · Jan 07, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

[spinal shivers]
A level 12 AP also gives 17 energy return when the target dies, plus a 13 soul reaping returns 13 energy giving a total of 30 energy when the target dies provided it is within the 3 times over 15s limit.

then you arent using [signet of lost souls] correctly.. if you were, you would be returning 40 energy per kill. which would allow you to tone down deadly arts a bit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I dont need a fast recharge skill like necrosis because I have AP. And it is good to have a cast and forget skill like EVAS and with AP, I can have multiple assassins running around at the same time.

If you are a necro prime on a discord team and you dont bring [necrosis] the you are fuxxing up. [[necrosis] is a free non-elite discord spike for you to bring on your bar. I mean come on, the condition is already met so most of the work is already done for you.

If it wasnt for [finish him] being instant, i would say that [necrosis] is better than [finish him] on a discord team as a final hit simply because it hits for 90 when finish him hits for 80.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Like I have said, my strategy is to synergize with a discordway triple necro heroes team. Therefore [[you move like a dwarf] and [[finish him] give cripple, deep wound, and cracked armor. All nice conditions to support discord. AP can also be used to support discord as a hex, but I usually cast it just before the target dies. My necro heroes bring their own hexes also.

[finish him] is worthless if you are using it for deep wound and cracked armor to prime discord. By the time you cast [[finish him] the enemies are dead so the deep wound and cracked armor are late to the party, too late to prime for discord.
Im not saying that [[finish him] is a poor skill in the least bit, on the contrary, i think [assassins promise] should be without it. I do think that it is dumb to say that [[finish him] giving deep wound and cracked armor is nice to support discord because by that time, the enemy has a cun+ hair worth of life left and a couple wandings would kill it.

Daesu · Jan 07, 2009, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

then you arent using [signet of lost souls] correctly.. if you were, you would be returning 40 energy per kill. which would allow you to tone down deadly arts a bit

I usually dont have the time to cast [signet of lost souls] before the target dies after [Finish Him!]. I would choose to use [[Finish Him!] over [[signet of lost souls] once the target reaches below 50% hp.

Quote:

If you are a necro prime on a discord team and you dont bring [necrosis] the you are fuxxing up. [[necrosis] is a free non-elite discord spike for you to bring on your bar. I mean come on, the condition is already met so most of the work is already done for you.

Necrosis doesn't even compare with [[finish him]. Deep wound reduces the health of the target up to 100hp and reduces healing by 20%. Combine with the 80 armor ignoring damage from the shout itself and you have a 180 damage instant spike. [[finish him] still works better in the AP build than [[Necrosis].

True that I usually dont have the time to cast anything else before the target dies after [[finish him] but I dont need the deep wound and cracked to prime discord for the build to work. You forget that discord also works with the cripple condition from [[you move like a dwarf] which can be used even before the target reaches 50% hp. My necro heroes also bring their own conditions (e.g. [[enfeebling blood (pve)]) and hexes.

Xenomortis · Jan 07, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

If you are a necro prime on a discord team and you dont bring [necrosis] the you are fuxxing up. [[necrosis] is a free non-elite discord spike for you to bring on your bar. I mean come on, the condition is already met so most of the work is already done for you.

If it wasnt for [finish him] being instant, i would say that [necrosis] is better than [finish him] on a discord team as a final hit simply because it hits for 90 when finish him hits for 80.

I disagree completely. As a N/A running a Discord set up, I don't have time to cast Necrosis when I have better things to be doing. Necrosis doesn't speed anything up in dying and Mark of Pain is a better use of my casting time when I find the time and/or opportunity.
My routine is something along the lines of:
Cast AP
YMLaD!
Get heroes to spam Discord and -
- EV Sin support (sometimes)
- FH!
Target dies in a second or perhaps two if they're feeling really tough.
Repeat.

Necrosis doesn't fit in anywhere. I'd rather use other skills that do even more damage when I find myself with nothing to cast - which rarely happens.

The main advantage of FH! over Necrosis is the fact it causes Deep Wound. When you inflict Deep Wound, the target's health is reduced by 20% - an enemy with 200/500 health would suddenly be down to 100/400 health - add onto that the damage it does and the target is near dead. That and it casts instantly. Overall, FH! will cause more damage and lead to a faster death than Necrosis and that is what the Discord setup is all about.

There should also be very little need to use [Signet of Lost Souls]. Half the time my combo only consists of AP, YMLaD! and FH! - that's more than made up for with SR and AP.

daze · Jan 08, 2009, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You forget that discord also works with the cripple condition from [[you move like a dwarf] which can be used even before the target reaches 50% hp.

I didnt forget anything, i just wanted clarification on the following statement. Because anybody who reads is would come to the conclusion that you said that deep wound and cracked armor from [[finish him] are nice conditions to support discord..
Im well aware about crippling from [[you move like a dwarf]. Thats why I didnt bring it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Therefore [[you move like a dwarf] and [[finish him] give cripple, deep wound, and cracked armor. All nice conditions to support discord.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I usually dont have the time to cast [signet of lost souls] before the target dies after [Finish Him!]. I would choose to use [[Finish Him!] over [[signet of lost souls] once the target reaches below 50% hp.

Sorry but this is BS.. [signet of lost souls][finish him] can be casted at the exact same time. [[Signet of lost souls] has a quarter second cast time and [[finish him] is an instant shout. Which means when you click on [signet of lost souls] then immediately [finish him], they both activate at the same time.

And if its not perfectly simultaneous activations, you are looking at less than an eighth of a second gap between them. (faster than the fastest fast caster)

And what i find funny is the fact that you state that you dont have time to cast [signet of lost souls] by the time the enemy is < 50% health. Which means you have effectively wasted a skill slot with a skill you admittedly don't use.
It may be just me but if that were the case and i never had the time to use [signet of lost souls] i would probably just trade it out for [necrosis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

There should also be very little need to use [Signet of Lost Souls]. Half the time my combo only consists of AP, YMLaD! and FH! - that's more than made up for with SR and AP.

Normally i would agree, but as stated earlier, specing the full 12 points to deadly arts just for AP is a waste. So if you are worried about energy bad enough to waste that many attrib points, you should just figure out how to use [signet of lost souls] effectively. Or at the very least, if you dont use it, take it off your bar.